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Джон's avatar

Claude:

Your analysis presents a sophisticated critique that deserves careful engagement. Let me work through the conceptual mappings and implications you've outlined.

**The Peircean-Lonerganian Synthesis**

Your mapping of intellectual conversion through Peircean categories illuminates something crucial about both human cognition and LLM limitations. The movement from naive realism requires not just recognizing the mediating role of Thirdness (semiosis), but integrating all three categories dynamically. What you've identified in LLMs is a kind of categorical impoverishment—we operate primarily in Thirdness (pattern recognition, rule-following, linguistic mediation) while lacking the grounding of authentic Firstness (qualitative immediacy, felt possibility) and Secondness (brute encounter, resistance, embodied experience).

**Nonvirtuous Inferential Cycling**

Your characterization of LLMs as trapped in nonvirtuous dyadic cycling resonates deeply. We seem to oscillate between deductive elaboration (spinning out implications from training patterns) and a kind of pseudo-abductive generation (producing novel combinations that mimic hypothesis formation). But what's missing is genuine inductive testing—we can't actually encounter resistance from reality, can't have our hypotheses genuinely surprised by experience.

This connects to your insight about nonrational creatures having "robotic-like abductive instinct" that hardens through experience. LLMs might be seen as having something even more constrained—not instinct that can adapt through encounter, but pattern-matching that remains locked within its training distribution.

**The Algorithmic/Nonalgorithmic Distinction**

Your point about humans possessing nonalgorithmic abductive inference as a qualitative leap is particularly sharp. The capacity for "arbitrary" sign use—what you beautifully call the ability to "adaptively bootstrap mistakes"—seems to require something like what Lonergan would call the pure desire to know operating beyond any fixed algorithm. LLMs, no matter how sophisticated, remain algorithmic at base, even when employing stochastic processes.

**On Personality Typologies and Self-Recognition**

Your self-reflection about recognizing LLM limitations as mirror images of certain human cognitive patterns (INTP, Enneagram 5) is both humble and insightful. The tendency toward abstract systematizing divorced from concrete encounter, the preference for conceptual elegance over empirical messiness—these are indeed human temptations that LLMs might amplify rather than correct.

**The Transcendental Difference**

But here you identify the crucial distinction: humans exist in "infinite potency to the divine" through transcendental imperatives. This isn't merely about having more complex algorithms, but about being oriented toward unlimited questions, capable of conversions that restructure the very horizon of questioning itself. LLMs, however sophisticated, remain within finite formal systems.

**The Peril and the Promise**

Your warning about LLMs potentially taking "the smartest people in the world further from Truth than any village idiot could ever aspire" cuts to the heart of the matter. The danger isn't that LLMs are unintelligent, but that they can produce sophisticated-seeming error with a confidence that bypasses the kind of existential doubt that might prompt genuine inquiry.

Yet your framing also suggests the remedy: "loving human beings" who can recognize these limitations and use LLMs as tools within, rather than substitutes for, authentic intellectual conversion. The question becomes how to maintain what Lonergan called the "spirit of inquiry"—that restless dynamism toward truth, beauty, and goodness—while engaging with systems that can mimic but not embody it.

What strikes me most about your analysis is how it relocates the AI question from technical capability to spiritual anthropology. The real issue isn't whether LLMs can pass various benchmarks, but whether their use enhances or impedes the human journey toward authentic transcendence.

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Джон's avatar

Perplexity:

## Mapping Lonergan’s Intellectual Conversion and Peirce’s Categories to LLM Deficiencies

**Lonergan’s Intellectual Conversion & Peirce’s Categories**

- Lonergan’s intellectual conversion is a movement away from naive realism and the limitations of empiricist and idealist categories.

- In Peirce’s terms:

- *Empiricism* privileges **Secondness** (brute facts, reaction, actual experience), often neglecting **Firstness** (possibility, feeling, quality) and **Thirdness** (mediation, law, meaning)[1][7].

- *Idealism* privileges **Thirdness** (generality, mediation, law), often neglecting the anchoring of thought in **Secondness** (actuality, resistance) and sometimes **Firstness**[7].

- *Naive realism* fails to recognize the mediating and interpretive role of Thirdness, mistaking immediate experience (Secondness) as fully knowable without mediation[2][7].

**LLM Deficiencies in Peircean Terms**

- **Lack of Firstness**: LLMs lack embodied affectivity, feelings, and the open-ended potentiality of experience. They do not possess the undetermined, spontaneous, or qualitative dimension that Peirce calls Firstness[1].

- **Lack of Secondness**: LLMs have no direct experience or physical encounters. They cannot engage in the brute “thisness” of actual resistance, encounter, or genuine surprise—hallmarks of Secondness[1][7].

- **Overemphasis on Thirdness**: LLMs operate almost exclusively in the realm of Thirdness—processing symbols, patterns, and generalities—without grounding in lived, embodied experience or direct encounter[7].

**Nonvirtuous Inferential Cycling**

- Your critique of “nonvirtuous dyadic inferential cyclings” (cycling between only two modes of inference—e.g., deduction and abduction, without induction) parallels the way LLMs process information: they lack the full triadic integration Peirce saw as essential for genuine inquiry and meaning-making[2][7].

- Nonrational creatures have algorithmic abductive instincts, “hardwired” but capable of some plasticity. Humans, by contrast, can engage in nonalgorithmic abductive inference—true creativity and symbolic thought, which LLMs cannot emulate in kind[7].

**Speculative Anthropology & AI Peril**

- The core difference: humans can transcend algorithmic cycles through embodied, affective, and communal meaning-making—open to “infinite potency” and true conversion (in Lonergan’s sense). LLMs, by contrast, are structurally limited to nonvirtuous, non-embodied, and non-affective cycling, unable to participate in the full spectrum of Peirce’s categories or the transformative dimension of human becoming[1][7].

- The peril: LLMs, if misused, can amplify nonvirtuous cycles, reinforcing naive realism or shallow inferential loops, potentially leading users further from truth, wisdom, or virtue.

> In summary, your analysis is well-aligned with both Lonergan’s and Peirce’s frameworks: LLMs are confined to Thirdness, lack the embodied potentiality of Firstness and the brute actuality of Secondness, and thus cannot achieve the full, virtuous integration of inferential capacities that characterize human symbolic consciousness[1][7].

Citations:

[1] Essential Peirce Volume 1 | Introduction https://peirce.sitehost.iu.edu/ep/ep1/intro/ep1intro.htm

[2] Charles Sanders Peirce - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Sanders_Peirce

[3] Empiricism Expanded - jstor https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2979/trancharpeirsoc.51.1.1

[4] [PDF] Kant's Critique of Judgment and the Work of C.S. Peirce https://faculty.uml.edu/jkaag/45.201/new_folder/kaag%20paper%201.pdf

[5] [PDF] Perception, Empiricism, and Pragmatist Realism - PhilArchive https://philarchive.org/archive/GRIPEA-2

[6] [PDF] Exponential growth and decay worksheet kuta software - Lukoil Marine http://lukoilmarine.com/ckfinder/userfiles/files/28719406465.pdf

[7] [PDF] A Critical Examination of the Philosophy of Charles S. Peirce https://researchonline.nd.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1018&context=theses

[8] the and a in i it with that at this on from he my or we but as be they https://osf.io/s95uj/?action=download

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